Question:

Ms Baerbock, there have been many swansongs for the Western alliance in recent times. Does the West still exist?

Annalena Baerbock:

When the world changes, the answers of the past can only help us so much. We have seen that neither the COVID-19 pandemic nor climate change or disinformation stop at national borders. So we need partners that go above and beyond the so-called “West”, and not only in these tempestuous times.

Question:

What do you mean by that?

Annalena Baerbock:

Two things are happening here at the same time. Democracies are being challenged by autocracies. New regional powers are emerging. And, at the same time, ruthlessness is on the rise – on the part of states, but also on the part of actors within democratic societies who act ruthlessly, believe in the law of the strong and sometimes seek to maximise their advantage in a brutal way. It’s therefore important to me to forge alliances across continents that stand up for international rules together.

Question:

Where do you see the US in this?

Annalena Baerbock:

The appeal of the world’s oldest modern democracy was never based solely on its great economic and military strength, but also on the dream of freedom and the rule of law. The US government shouldn’t be interested in undermining this image.

Question:

Can we still count on the US to come to the aid of European countries if we’re attacked? That’s what Article 5 of the NATO Treaty provides for after all.

Annalena Baerbock:

NATO was founded for precisely this purpose, so that our societies aren’t paralysed out of fear of war, but develop freely and in prosperity. For Europe, this is more important than ever right now.

Question:

But can NATO’s pledge of mutual protection still be taken seriously?

Annalena Baerbock:

Of course – that still stands. The pledge of mutual protection is the core idea of this defence alliance. One for all and all for one – to protect our peace.

Question:

European politicians keep on emphasising that Europe has to become more independent and do more to ensure its own security. At the same time, they’re clinging to the US. For example, they claim that Europe cannot safeguard a possible ceasefire in Ukraine on its own, but only with the US. So what’s the answer?

Annalena Baerbock:

That’s not a contradiction. We need strong partners and friends for peace. This applies to each and every country around the world, and this unites us over thousands of kilometres. But I also firmly believe that you will only receive support from others if you’re strong and self-confident and stand up for your own interests. You will have more partners if you yourself show that you’re doing everything in your power to promote your own freedom and peace.

Question:

What does that mean for Ukraine? Can Europe really not safeguard peace there one day by itself?

Annalena Baerbock:

Only with European security guarantees will there be genuine peace. But these guarantees are all the stronger the more countries are involved. As the world’s largest military power, the US is the best insurance policy for peace in Europe. That’s why we need the Americans. But we’re also saying just as clearly that, in the medium and long term, the Americans also need us Europeans – because they too cannot hold their own alone in the world. Especially when players such as China, Russia, Iran and North Korea join forces.

Question:

You’ve just attended the foreign ministers’ meeting of the seven largest industrialised countries. If the world is now divided up differently, why do we still need the G7?

Annalena Baerbock:

The group was founded 50 years ago in response to the oil crisis. At the time, the most powerful economic powers wanted first and foremost to safeguard their prosperity. They were accused of pursuing only their own interests. That has changed. The G7, i.e. the democracies with the strongest economies, have a global responsibility. In addition to the Europeans and the US, Asia is also at the table with Japan. In response to Russia’s war of aggression against Ukraine and thus against the rules-based international order, we expanded the G7 into a crisis response centre under Germany’s Presidency. As the meeting here in Canada showed, the G7 is an important driving force for peace in Ukraine.

Question:

Can we really still speak of a community? The Trump administration is laying claim to foreign territories, imposing tariffs across the world and giving Ukraine some of the blame for Russia’s war of aggression.

Annalena Baerbock:

The G7 is such a strong community that, despite our sometimes minor or currently also major differences, we find common solutions for major geopolitical challenges time and again. At our recent meeting, we demonstrated that we as the G7 are taking responsibility, not least for Ukraine. Our clear message as G7 Foreign Ministers, and this also goes for my US counterpart Marco Rubio, is that we stand firmly behind Ukraine and its territorial integrity.

Question:

In Germany, a new government is currently being negotiated that your party will probably no longer be part of. So your term in office will soon come to an end. How do you feel about that?

Annalena Baerbock:

I have mixed feelings. I’m incredibly grateful for the privilege of representing our wonderful country around the world. But I would have liked to have continued in this role.

Question:

What was the most important lesson you learned?

Annalena Baerbock:

That trust is the most important currency in the world in times of crisis. Trust is hard work. By listening a lot, not only taking the concerns of others seriously, but also always being willing to put yourself in their shoes – especially when you see things completely differently. One of my most important decisions in this regard was to bring climate foreign policy to the Federal Foreign Office. The climate crisis is now the biggest crisis for most of the world’s countries. It’s not only leading to hunger and displacement, but is also exacerbating existing conflicts – which is why, for example, German aid for the drought in Ethiopia and in the Sahel is also a question of security policy.

Question:

What was your greatest success?

Annalena Baerbock:

A crisis that doesn’t even break out. And there have been quite a few of those. The drawback here (laughs) is that hardly anyone notices when a crisis is averted. The fact that Putin’s war aim of getting the small Republic of Moldova under his wing didn’t materialise, and the country has since become an EU accession candidate, was possible precisely because we, as the German Government, together with France and Romania, responded so resolutely at the time. An important breakthrough for the peace agreement between Armenia and Azerbaijan, which was finalised in recent days, was achieved in Berlin. And the approach taken by our National Security Strategy, which finally considers internal and external security to be two sides of the same coin, is also reflected in the agreement that has just been reached on the amendment to the Basic Law ensuring greater security. In addition to all these crises and conflicts, we at the Federal Foreign Office have finally tackled the modernisation and digitalisation of visas, which had been dragging on for years, head on. This is crucial for a modern country of immigration such as Germany, whose economy needs over 400,000 skilled workers every year.

Question:

And what was your biggest mistake?

Annalena Baerbock:

At the beginning of Russia’s war of aggression, I underestimated how many actors in Germany are spreading Russian propaganda and how strongly it has taken hold.

Question:

Hasn’t German politics facilitated that? Donald Trump claims to be bringing peace to Ukraine – while European countries have long talked primarily about supplying further weapons for the country.

Annalena Baerbock:

I could never have imagined that there would be such a large echo chamber for such a reversal of the roles of perpetrator and victim in free liberal democracies. After all, it should be a matter of course for us to help a European neighbour that has been attacked in the most brutal way to defend itself. In these times, however, we shouldn’t underestimate the power of interpretation even when it comes to issues that are seemingly obvious. So yes, we cannot just speak publicly about weapons systems, but we must make it clear each and every day that our peace in Europe is at stake here.

Interview: Fabian Busch

www.web.de

www.gmx.net