Question:

Ms Baerbock, when was the last time you went to the market in Potsdam?

Annalena Baerbock:

Oh, that was the Saturday before last. When I’m in Potsdam at the weekend, I’m put in charge of getting the bread rolls. My family is very particular about this; I have to go to the bakery and then to the stall at Nauener Tor for sweet rolls without raisins.

Question:

You write the following on your homepage: “For me, my home is a place where I get to talk to people, stroll around the market and recharge my batteries.” Does that still work for you?

Annalena Baerbock:

Yes. My children go to school here, and whenever possible I want to be a normal mum and resident of Potsdam – to take the tram to a family party or go for a quick jog around the market in the morning on my way to the bakery.

Question:

Just like that?

Annalena Baerbock:

If you take a closer look, you’ll see that I’m accompanied by security detail. This is unfortunately necessary because hate speech and incitement are spreading. But we’ve got a number of people living in Potsdam who are well known – and the fact that I live here is nothing new. Nobody’s up in arms about that. I often get into conversation with people I haven’t seen in a long time. Or people want to talk to me about current issues.

Question:

What, for example?

Annalena Baerbock:

Like me, many people are very concerned about the state of the world. There’s lots to talk about. But especially in Potsdam, where many people know me, people often say to me in a really nice way: “I don’t want to bother you; you’ve got so much stress – but I just want to wish you a lot of strength in these brutal times.” That’s nice to hear.

Question:

You haven’t yet talked about how you’re spending the festive season. Do you have to protect your private life more than other politicians?

Annalena Baerbock:

Unfortunately, yes. Since Russia’s war of aggression against Ukraine, targeted Russian propaganda on the internet has also intensified at a personal level. As a woman and if you’ve got children, this entails particular security concerns. I very much regret this, because it’s important to me as a politician not to shut myself away. I want to continue to be part of normal life. Portraying politics as if it were no longer part of everyday life is precisely what hate speech and incitement seek to do.

Question:

Is that the case for you?

Annalena Baerbock:

As far as possible. And that’s where my children really help. In the early days, I was often asked whether my job is possible at all with schoolchildren. I’ve come to believe that being a mum enables me to be a better politician because I invariably have one foot in normal life. In the winter, I can go to the Christmas market in the evening or to the funfair in the spring (laughs).

[…]

Question:

First there was the heating law, now there’s the budget crisis, which will make petrol, heating and electricity more expensive. In Brandenburg, democratic parties are concerned that the coalition government has launched an economic stimulus programme for the AfD. Are their concerns justified?

Annalena Baerbock:

No! It’s clear that the price rises are substantial. For some, this means that they struggle to pay their bills at the end of the month. However, the root cause of the price increases isn’t the coalition government, but Russia’s war of aggression. And it’s precisely those who believe that we shouldn’t support Ukraine that we must tell loudly and clearly that if Vladimir Putin hadn’t invaded his neighbouring country in the most brutal way, murdering thousands of people, raping them, driving them from their homes and at the same time triggering worldwide economic shocks with his brutal war of aggression, we wouldn’t be in this difficult financial situation in Germany.

Question:

What can remedy this situation?

Annalena Baerbock:

We, the German Government, have tried to alleviate the burden on people and companies with direct energy assistance and a major economic stimulus programme. The truth is that not many other countries around the world have been able to do this. The judgement of the Federal Constitutional Court has called this into question to a certain extent. It falls to us to remedy this. But it would be best for our economic situation and for the people of Ukraine if Putin were to withdraw his troops tomorrow.

Question:

That’s not going to happen. Peace for Ukraine seems a long way off.

Annalena Baerbock:

Sadly, yes, because Putin, with his imperial delusions, wants to destroy his neighbouring country with great brutality. The lion’s share of my job over the past two years has been to work day in, day out to persuade Russia to end this war.

Question:

Without success.

Annalena Baerbock:

The fact that Putin’s original plan to take Kyiv and murder, expel or subjugate over 40 million people didn’t work out is thanks to the incredible courage of the Ukrainians to defend their country. And also because of the support from us and so many other countries that are doing what is human, namely helping the victim and not the aggressor by looking the other way. In the places that unfortunately haven’t been liberated or protected yet, we’re once again witnessing in this winter what the whole of Ukraine, as well as neighbouring countries such as Moldova, would have been threatened with if we as the EU and the majority of the world hadn’t stood united by Ukraine’s side. Putin is deliberately attacking power stations, electricity distribution centres and power lines so that the water supply freezes at minus ten degrees and people die of thirst and freeze to death. He wants to destroy Ukraine, and that’s why we’ll support the country for as long as it needs us.

Question:

There have been protests against your Ukraine policy in Brandenburg. When you were in Eisenhüttenstadt, eggs were thrown on the sidelines of a meeting. What’s your perception of the general mood?

Annalena Baerbock:

There’s no one mood. It’s important to me to emphasise this. Such generalisations – the people of Brandenburg, the East Germans – fuel division in society. At the meeting in Eisenhüttenstadt, I was visiting a school. Many pupils had questions about why we’re supporting Ukraine – very critical ones, of course. We had a heated discussion. There were adults outside who, instead of using words, threw eggs at a school building. That really shocked the pupils.

Question:

Migration policy is an important issue in Brandenburg, where the SPD and CDU have taken a tougher line on asylum policy. The Greens in Brandenburg are finding this hard to swallow. What’s your advice?

Annalena Baerbock:

It’s absurd to pretend that migration can be stopped at the press of a button. It would mean having to build a wall around our country again. We have to deal with migration – with orderly procedures, but also with humanity. We have just done this at European level with the Common European Asylum System, after years of discussion and with difficult compromises for us as Greens. Now binding registration at the external borders can finally get underway and, based on this, distribution to the European member states, which will also relieve the burden on German municipalities.

Question:

Can this calm the heated debate?

Annalena Baerbock:

Some forces in our country, such as the AfD, but unfortunately also some conservatives, aren’t interested in solutions – for instance, in genuinely easing the burden on local authorities and genuinely giving people the opportunity to integrate. Instead, they want to divide this country. By suggesting that order and humanity are a contradiction in terms, they’re doing serious damage to democracy. I won’t go along with that, my party won’t go along with that and neither will the German Government. Humanity and order are two sides of the same coin. People fleeing war and persecution have a right to protection. Our procedures must therefore get faster and more efficient. So that people can not only stay, but also work and take part in daily life. And at the same time, we need swifter procedures so that those who cannot stay are informed quickly and are repatriated. We have adopted both of these aspects in the coalition government.

Question:

What effects will the Common European Asylum System have in Brandenburg and Potsdam?

Annalena Baerbock:

New regulations won’t take effect immediately, even though significantly fewer people have arrived in Brandenburg in recent months than in the previous year. If people are registered at the EU’s external borders before being actively distributed to more European countries, this could ease the burden on our municipalities in the medium term. As the German Government, we have also provided greater funding for local authorities for integration. After all, this isn’t about putting a stop to people coming – that would also be hugely detrimental to us as an economy. We have an enormous shortage of skilled labour, also in Brandenburg. In Potsdam, restaurants are having to close and companies are under enormous pressure because no one has enough staff. A good migration policy involves getting people into employment quickly and integrating them as citizens. That’s why we’ve also modernised legislation on nationality as part of the migration package.

Question:

As Foreign Minister, you’ve visited the Middle East on a number of occasions since 7 October, experiencing the suffering and horror of Hamas’ attack and the war there. At the same time, antisemitism is on the rise in Brandenburg. How can you reconcile these two things?

Annalena Baerbock:

It’s probably human nature to prefer to pull the covers over your head when crises appear to be coming thick and fast. If you offer black and white responses, you’ll garner support. And that’s precisely what I’m standing up to. Yes, the world is super complex. But that’s not a free pass for hate speech and incitement. When we see Jews being attacked because they’re Jews and Israel’s right to exist being denied, we have to stand up to this. Whether in Brandenburg or Berlin. Whether on the bus or at international conferences. Antisemitism has no place in Germany. I’m just as clear in my warning that some people are now fuelling hatred against Muslims against the backdrop of the crisis in the Middle East. Article 1 of our Basic Law is crystal clear: human dignity shall be inviolable. There are no ifs or buts on this issue.

Question:

Should it be compulsory for people who want to have German nationality to declare their support for Israel’s right to exist?

Annalena Baerbock:

We already have clear rules on loyalty to the constitution and our Basic Law. This also includes the fact that antisemitic hate-mongering is a criminal offence. Israel’s security is part of Germany’s national ethos – for good reason. Therefore, in individual cases in which people take far-reaching action against the core of this national identity, it’s possible already today for German nationality not to be granted or to be revoked retroactively.

Question:

The climate conference in Dubai has heralded the end of the fossil fuel era. Does that have to be one more reason for Brandenburg to phase out coal sooner than 2038?

Annalena Baerbock:

In Dubai – at over 30 degrees in December – I couldn’t stop thinking about Brandenburg. After all, the conference there focused on the very questions that we have been racking our brains over here for years and which we have now found good answers to. How can we phase out fossil fuels such as coal, safeguard jobs in the Lausitz region and at the same time remain an economic force? I recall the most heated discussions in Cottbus, for example, at which people rightly asked: but where am I supposed to work then, Ms Baerbock? Where’s your new future technology here? And today we have this technology in the form of the Lausitz energy region.

Question:

So 2038 is soon enough for phasing out coal in Brandenburg?

Annalena Baerbock:

Given that our companies here in Brandenburg have been managing the transformation well for years now and making new investments, there are signs already today that the phase-out will automatically happen sooner than that.

Question:

Minister-President Dietmar Woidke (SPD) has postponed the climate plan, which aims to make Brandenburg climate-neutral by 2045, until next year – even though all ministries are in agreement. Can Brandenburg afford such delays?

Annalena Baerbock:

I was more than surprised, because the example of Brandenburg clearly shows that it’s best if we’re at the forefront of such far-reaching processes of structural change as opposed to waiting and seeing. If we’re not, investments will be made elsewhere. This isn’t just a climate issue anymore, but a question of business and location policy. And I want to see further wide-scale investment in Brandenburg. This requires reliability, especially from political decision-makers.

Question:

Potsdam is considered to be something of a utopia in the east. But here, too, the city council is fragmented into more than ten groups and there have been months of conflict over important decisions such as school planning. What’s your assessment of the political situation in the Land capital?

Annalena Baerbock:

Potsdam is one of the most liveable cities – this is reflected by the large number of people coming to live here. However, growing pains are also part and parcel of this. If the infrastructure doesn’t grow quickly enough, especially with respect to schools, daycare facilities or affordable housing, it makes living together more difficult. That’s why these investments are so important and shouldn’t be put on the back burner.

[…]

Question:

It’s Christmas, the festival of peace. What’s on your mind as you celebrate in light of the war in Ukraine and the war in Gaza?

Annalena Baerbock:

Merry Christmas… That has a special meaning for me at this Christmas time. To be happy that we can live in peace and freedom. With this in mind, Merry Christmas to one and all, in spite of the state of the world.

Interview: Sabine Schicketanz and Henri Kramer

www.tagesspiegel.de